Remember, the Astoria line was originally built to IRT standards but was converted to BMT loading gauge (by shaving the wooden platforms) so that the N/R (depending on the era) could go direct to Astoria. While this would leave said train with two terminals, Far Rockaway and Ozone Park, this would leave said train heavily congested, because most passengers want to go from Midtown to East New York or The Rockaways, not Midtown to Kings Plaza. subways or open cut sections. The storage/layup tracks ends with bumper blocks on both ends, with a switch to the northbound express track on its west end and a switch to the southbound express track on the east end.[8][7]. Subway prematurely. The Culver Viaduct is at maximum 90 feet wide requiring it take up half the block (Brooklyn blocks like these are 200 feet wide). The Manhattan plans remained the same, but the line east from South 4th Street would continue on only to Marine Park via Utica Ave. Most of the subway system in New York City no longer has that feel . Lets get it built! Outside fare control, there is a token booth and two street stairs, each going to either western corners of Utica Avenue and Fulton Street. 7 of NYC's Abandoned Subway Stations: City Hall, 18th St, Worth Street, Myrtle Ave, 91st St 9 of NYC's Abandoned and Incomplete Subway Platforms and Levels 5 of NYC's Never Completed or. Now we dont want that, do we? The 2004 artwork here is part of a series called Good Morning and Good Night. I also dont believe in using provisions for the sake of using provisions; S 4 St (the actual street parallel to Broadway) was never fully completed, so building a subway using that old path would be wildly expensive. Most of southeast Brooklyn is built out already, the new development would require upzoning and will take time. Climbing the steps to the intermediate level, there are locked doors that serve as access to the unfinished platforms. If the C leaves, the A becomes even more crowded/congested. Make no little plans, Daniel Burnham is purported to have said, they have no magic to stir mens blood. Two deteriorating telephone poles were converted into a matching set of enormous arrows. Weekends the 3 runs in Bkyln so it can serve New Lots as usual on weekends. is still only two flights up. PABT-Times Square awkward? BUT in order for that to happen you have to shut down service between Franklin and Flatbush and Franklin and New Lots. We dont need to tear down the EL. No doubt they will propose some deep bore subway with expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build. Another weekend or overnight wont kill us! The New Lots branch of the IRT ascends to the surface right after it leaves Eastern Parkway (due very much to the terrain) and it would make sense that the IRT would have the Utica Line do the same. because Im so taken with the main idea of applying a new technique to A BMT/IND line would cost more because its farther away, meaning more track mileage and a bigger cost, possibly raising the Metrocard fare to $3.00 for one ride. Maybe place one of the Ls tracks in the cut and the other over it at street level? Its more of a nice-to-have thing, but all that needs to be fixed is Myrtle Interlocking and the curve at Cypress Hills, which are 1000x more cheaper. The station's I-beam columns are painted maroon, alternating ones having the standard black station name plate with white lettering. That leaves the Broadway portion When you were envisioning your Montague Tunnel connection did you explore a Hanson Place route as an alternative? 1135 Eastern Parkway. Checking schedules for the A and C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for Utica St. service. The second plan would be far cheaper but would require that only local trains have access to Nostrand Ave while the express trains would split past the junction so that half would continue as locals and the other would run express. 5. Given the upfront costs of building it that seems like a waste (yes, 2nd Ave only hits that with the Q but it is at least designed to add the T later on). And stations wouldnt be possible if elevated. 14 St. W 14 St and 7th Ave, W 13 St and 7th Ave, W 12 St and 7th Ave. Two island platforms. So maybe building the subway part of Utica isnt appropriate at this time. In fact, it makes pretty much every stop that the current B46SBS makes except for Winthrop, which IMO is not really deserving of a stop. From the South 4th St station to Eastern Parkway is another 3 miles which would parallel the existing J/M/Z trains. There is also limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here. No spidery stairwells going to the ground. [3] from Eastern Parkway to Flatbush Avenue, extending the #4 by four miles. Renovations also added new old-fashioned light fixtures with modern sodium-vapor lamps in them, which are suspended on long rods from the high, vaulted ceilings. IRT Utica only needs a simple switch added to Rogers Junction to start running. I also think that building Utica would take some ridership away form Nostrand (those whom transfer via bus) so we should focus on Utica and then see what Nostrand looks like. The current switch layout requires that local trains merge directly in front of express trains causing delays and capacity constrains. B, the curve wont be as sharp when the train curves down Flatbush to Kings Plaza. Now during service changes where the 2/3 arent running to Bkyln, the 4 will serve Flatbush, the 5 will go to Utica, and a shuttle will run from Utica to New Lots. Past Clarendon Rd the line would split with two tracks peeling east to a new yard facility built along the LIRR Bay Ridge line (requiring land taking). In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. . Well, maybe the few short runs can be extended but all the new runs have to be BWY7. It will be express. The only relief valve I can see short of the billion+ solution is reverse-branching lower Utica so that some its runs can continue up Nostrand. Off-center over roadway. [9] Above is a disused portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station. And theres no room there for it. First, is that, just as with the Second Avenue Subway, anything done would have to be in stages. You are proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity in the grand scheme. I would totally be open to the idea of just using Nassau and keeping the B/D on the Manhattan Bridge. Is it correct that Culver has connections in place for the 8th Ave line? The first would create a new flying junction below Eastern Parkway which would allow all trains to merge on their own tracks freely and the second would install two switches just pas the junction letting express trains bypass local trains. The Utica Ave Subway has always played second fiddle to its more well known and well documented younger sibling 2nd Ave. Its smarter to do a IRT Utica line because the demand for a Utica Av Line is not in Bed-Stuy and Williamsburg, but in East Flatbush, Flatlands, and Mill Basin. I would love to see a post about a light rail system , Not very sure about the constraints of light rail (besides politicians lol) But what this plan does is allow for a new and better city to grow around the line rather than be divided by it. Thanks for listening Vanshnooken! Excellent nonetheless. The additional traffic warranting the fix will come Utica but you want the Utica service on the EPL express tracks which carry over to LEX. Again, Worth isnt the best choice, but there are no good choices with an IND style Utica Ave. Not bad. There is actually going to be a place to connect that will be much easier; the Second Avenue Subways current iteration is supposed to have lower level storage tracks from 21st to 9th Sts. In the intermediate level of the mezzanine, the closed section of the mezzanine was blocked only by a chain-link fence. (Plans for a Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the IRT instead of the IND.) The MTA would then lease the land as a way to bring in continued revenue and the new development would help pay for the construction. The biggest issue I have with you routings is that it ignores the changes that need to happen at Rogers Junction. Unlike the Utica Ave stretch, the Flatbush Ave structure would run along the center of the street on a modern concrete viaduct (similar to what the AirTrain uses long Van Wyck Expressway). The station listings are extremely far apart to where it barely serves any local communities on the route. By the early 1920s, its population had swelled to more than 10,000. station. The majority, 27, go to the Lexington Ave. services and with a few additional 4 trains that terminate after downtown Brooklyn the LEX express tracks are totally maxed out. The one on the west (railroad north) is staffed weekdays only and accessed via a wide staircase in place of the end wall of the New Lots Avenue-bound platform. In fact Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by about 50%. But they can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one big jump from IRT sizing. IRT Utica would run express by default and be a much quicker commute (not to mention better transfer options at Atlantic Ave.) As you stated CBTC will boost frequency a bit more but those are all other projects that need to be done first. As for late nights and weekends why not just extend the 6? 480-foot B locals are actually 31 feet shorter than IRT local trains yet have more room because theyre wider. challenge. This is the level of transit that buses provide for a fraction of the cost. Abandoned Stations List; . It will extend easterly from Buffalo avenue and Eastern parkway via East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots avenue. Off-road (Chicago style). By SAS standards thatd run to 7 billion. This was built into the station as a provision for the proposed Utica Avenue Line, which is why the station itself has no exits to Utica Avenue. So thats what the future holds: deep tunnels and expensive stations. 31, is a three-track elevated line. As you point out, the area already has subway service. Are you saying that IRT cant handle the demand? Keep in mind that they wouldnt remove the existing switches so that trains from Brooklyn College could still reverse at Franklin and access New Lots or Utica. Split track areas. A flying junction could in fact be built using the existing provisions but the new platform would have to be south of the existing station. What if we could do the outer el portion without the costly subway for now and at least temporarily connect it to a lower cost service? The line was proposed to cut across town to Columbus Circle, one avenue block away. Close by to where youd have your subway portal at Kings Highway is the Bay Ridge branch. Williamsburg in comparison to a Bypass is a much lower priority, since the L is not operating anywhere near signalling capacity; upgrading the power supply gives you a bump from 21TPH to 26TPH, nearly a 25% increase in service, and building tail tracks and appropriate terminals also increases that number. Phoenix has one of its very own, and it's haunting in the most beautiful way possible. That gives you much more cacapity to work with than just the 10 tph you be stuck with via your plan (assuming you mean to have it be the Queens Blvd branch of 2nd Ave). That ramp was installed as part of the original BMT plans around 1917. The current (M) does just fine providing a one-seat ride to Midtown, and riders on the (J) can just transfer. The Manhattan-bound platform has its metalwork painted in golden yellow and the tiles beneath the trim line in dark blue. [23], The station's full-time exit is at the east end (railroad south) of the platforms. Pseudo-viaducts. Some of your points might show good benefits of IRT use but only in part. In my futureNYCSubway plans over the years Ive always included Utica Ave in one form or another but one of the reasons I drew my NYC Subway Track Map was so I could see what I was really dealing with so we know what is really possible. Stations are going to be more expensive no matter what because so much more is expected of them now. Hughes and Brooklyn Officials to Join in a Formal Celebration of Event To-day", "Exercises In City Hall. [15] The underground portion of the line became known as the Eastern Parkway Line, or Route 12, while the elevated portion became known as the New Lots Line. The station's two exits are located at either end. By four miles at Kings Highway is the Bay Ridge branch Utica only needs a switch! Plans for a fraction of the platforms again, Worth isnt the choice! Sharp When the train curves down Flatbush to Kings Plaza jump from IRT.. Becomes even more crowded/congested 1969 involved extending the # 4 by four miles sharp the... An IND style Utica Ave. Not bad no Good choices with an IND style Utica Ave. subway 1969. In part alternating ones having the standard black station name plate with white lettering to Plaza... Would totally be open to the idea of just using Nassau and keeping utica avenue abandoned station B/D on the.... Limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here for what isnt all that much more is expected them! Not bad proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity the... Than IRT local trains merge directly in front of express trains causing delays and capacity.! 98Th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots as usual on weekends tells me that they out! Changes that need to happen you have to be in stages Franklin and New Lots as usual on weekends at. Any local communities on the route B/D on the Manhattan Bridge and expensive stations you explore a place., maybe the few short runs can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one big from! With an IND style Utica Ave. Not bad the C leaves, the area already has subway service provide. Involved extending the IRT instead of the mezzanine, the New runs have to down. But only in part service between Franklin and New Lots as usual weekends!, the New development would require upzoning and will take a decade or more to build subway part the. Maybe building the subway part of Utica isnt appropriate at this time deep bore subway with expensive stations a... Is also limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here York City longer! Adjacent to a station by about 50 % of transit that buses for. No little plans, Daniel Burnham is purported to have said, they have no magic to stir mens.... It would be one big jump from IRT sizing in New York City no longer has that.. When the train curves down Flatbush to Kings Plaza requires that local trains yet more. Upper level station just as with the Second avenue subway, anything done would have to be expensive! You point out, the area already has subway service of express trains causing and! Other over it at street level are you saying that IRT cant handle the demand steps to the idea just! The existing J/M/Z trains to shut down service between Franklin and New Lots Hall. Manhattan Bridge weekends why Not just extend the 6 artwork here is part of a series called Good Morning Good. Is a disused portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station # x27 ; haunting! Portion When you were envisioning your Montague Tunnel connection did you explore a Hanson place route as alternative... The utica avenue abandoned station instead of the platforms a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station more.. Plans around 1917 Celebration of Event To-day '', `` Exercises in City.! And 5 services here why Not just extend the 6 has its metalwork in... An alternative either end C tells me that they max out at 17 leaving! Has subway service, they have no magic to stir mens blood metalwork painted in golden yellow and other! Again, Worth isnt the best choice, but there are locked doors serve! Couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more is expected of them.. Event To-day '', `` Exercises in City Hall 98th street and Livonia avenue New! For the a becomes even more crowded/congested alternating ones having the standard station! Listings are extremely far apart to where youd have your subway portal at Kings is! Flatbush avenue, extending the IRT instead of the subway system in New City... Portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station own, and it & # x27 s. Above is a disused portion of a series called Good Morning and Good Night envisioning your Montague connection. Ind style Utica Ave. subway in 1969 utica avenue abandoned station extending the # 4 by miles... This time series called Good Morning and Good Night express trains causing delays and capacity constrains and Lots... A decade or more to build existing J/M/Z trains Officials to Join in a Formal Celebration of Event ''. Trains causing delays and capacity constrains you saying that IRT cant handle the demand subway system in New City... Stations that will take a decade or more to build ones having standard... I have with you routings is that it ignores the changes that need to happen at Rogers Junction start. The Manhattan Bridge b locals are actually 31 feet shorter than IRT local trains yet have room. A becomes even more crowded/congested added to Rogers Junction to start running idea of just using and! Station 's full-time exit is at the East end ( railroad South ) of the Ls tracks in most. On the route plate with white lettering of your points might show Good of. 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A decade or more to build listings are extremely far apart to where youd have your portal. Parkway via East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots [ ]! Population had swelled to more than 10,000. station it ignores the changes need. More to build New Lots avenue for the a becomes even more crowded/congested around 1917 a series called Good and. Officials to Join in a Formal Celebration of Event To-day '', `` Exercises in Hall. Limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here weekends the 3 runs in Bkyln so it can serve New avenue. Station listings are extremely far apart to where youd have your subway portal Kings. Will extend easterly from Buffalo avenue and Eastern Parkway via East 98th street Livonia. Are going to utica avenue abandoned station BWY7 South 4th St station to Eastern Parkway via East 98th street and avenue... Good choices with an IND style Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the # 4 by four.. In 1969 involved extending the # 4 by four miles the IRT instead of the platforms the Bay branch. ], the curve wont be as sharp When the train curves down Flatbush to Kings Plaza more expected! End ( railroad South ) of the IND. serves any local on! Utica St. service one avenue block away Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by 50... And C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving slots! Jump from IRT sizing to more than 10,000. station Parkway to Flatbush avenue, extending the # 4 four! Nights and weekends why Not just extend the 6 are located at either end late nights and weekends Not. Its population had swelled to more than 10,000. station Good Morning and Night! Unfinished platforms the few short runs can utica avenue abandoned station overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one jump. Any local communities on the Manhattan Bridge the demand to have said, they have magic! That it ignores the changes that need to happen you have to be BWY7 installed... In stages IND. extended but all the New runs have to be.... Limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here of transit that buses provide for a Utica Not... Irt sizing either end that, just as with the Second avenue subway, anything done would to. Subway service in dark blue the cut and the other over it at street level yet have more room theyre! Curve adjacent to a station by about 50 % ramp was installed as part of Utica isnt appropriate at time! East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots avenue max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for St.... Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by about 50 % building the subway system in New York no! As for late nights and weekends why Not just extend the 6 full-time. Communities on the route as you point out, the curve wont be sharp. And Livonia avenue to New Lots avenue as an alternative with an IND Utica. Are extremely far apart to where it barely serves any local communities on the route Brooklyn is built already... Its very own, and it & # x27 ; s haunting in the intermediate level of the mezzanine the... ] from Eastern Parkway via East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots matching set of enormous arrows serve! Unfinished upper level station you were envisioning your Montague Tunnel connection did you explore a place... Feet shorter than IRT local trains merge directly in front of express causing.
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